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Usage

So who all do we want to clean out of here? We said this category was being used too loosely. Like someone else said, a lot of the characters from Finding Nemo aren't really antagonists (seagulls, crabs, etc.), they're just acting normally. - RaptorWiki 14:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

So are we going to use this ONLY for MAIN antagonists? If so, some cleanup is needed. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 17:54, September 27, 2011 (UTC)

Can we identify who is the "main" antagonist(s) in each movie or short, so we leave only those here?

I will insert my comments below each film where appropriate. One question I have, what is the definition of antagonist? The definition I have is "the character, group of characters, or institution, that represents the opposition against which the protagonist must contend." So this isn't always the "bad" guy, but the person who places obstacles in the way of the protagonist trying to accomplish his goals. Note, I am not an English major so am probably not a good source for this. Also, we may just want to use the usual meaning (bad guy) since that is what people are accustomed to.
I would just use the normal meaning (bad guy, evil). Anything else just gets complicated. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 01:07, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
OK, I'm fine with that. Not to stir the pot more, but then should the category be renamed to Villain? I'm fine leaving it as-is, since everyone is use to the current meaning, but just from the standpoint we are probably using the term incorrectly. --Jeff (talk) 02:37, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
I'm with you on that, I could leave as-is or change to "Villains". Although we might want to consider throwing the word "Primary" or something similar in front of it. That would prevent some misuse of the category like we've experienced so many times already. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 13:34, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
OK, how about Primary Villains? --Jeff (talk) 03:01, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
Sure. I kind of hate to change it, but I guess it really would make the intended category more clear. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 09:20, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
Should we go ahead and do this? - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia/Terra Nova Wikia Administrator 15:11, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 16:45, September 30, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I think this helps! --Jeff (talk) 02:37, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Toy Story

Sid Phillips

What about Buzz Lightyear? He is the one that starts all the issues for Woody. Sid is just being a normal kid (although I think he can still be an antagonist).
Again, Buzz is not evil. I don't really think kid is normal. He is evil (from the toys' point of view) as he blows up other toys and disfigures them, etc.
Right, definitely Sid.

A Bug's Life

Is it Hopper or all of the Grasshoppers?

I feel the same was as Lotso and his gang. I would vote Hopper.
Same here too, there is a page for them all - Grasshoppers. But still, Hopper is the leader, so I think Hopper as well.
Right.

Toy Story 2

Is it Stinky Pete or Al McWhiggin?

I would say Stinky Pete.
I'd agree. Stinky Pete does whatever it takes to get what he wants. Although Al does steal Woody, which is evil as well.
Yea, I think we should include Al. He was the one taking them to Tokyo and they were trying to avoid that.
Sorry to bring this up but I think we need to clarify and hopefully make one final decision on Toy Story 2 villain(s) and antagonist, before I just remove the whole damn villain category. I can see arguments for both Al and Stinky Pete being the primary villain. Al definitely starts things by stealing Woody; all of Woody's actions stem from that action. But Stinky Pete is definitely, um, stinky, although we don't really find out he is the one causing trouble until near the film's climax. In this case, I would be fine with both having the primary villains category and both being called the antagonist. But given I really hate this whole category, others may be able to give more insightful feedback to help the community make a final decision. Thoughts? --Jeff (talk) 17:34, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
I would tend to say Stinky Pete is the the primary villain. Sure, Al is the one starting off all the events by stealing Woody, which is unquestionably bad. But outside of that, I think Al didn't do anything really evil (but boy does he loves money). While he was in Al's custody, Woody was totally free to escape; and he almost did. If he didn't, it is because of Stinky Pete, who did everything to prevent Woody from leaving; in the end, he was ready to tear him in pieces for that.Gray Catbird (talk) 19:55, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
Well, and that is how it was decided originally, that Stinky Pete is the primary villain, so that is probably the right way to go, but I will give it another day or two and see if others have differing opinions. --Jeff (talk) 20:15, June 13, 2014 (UTC)
I thought we already decided on this long ago, above? But if we were to pick one of the two, yeah, I guess Pete would be the preferred. He does more "evil" things than Al. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 16:42, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Monsters, Inc.

Randall Boggs AND Henry J. Waternoose III both?

I think both. What about Boo?
Not Boo. But I agree with BOTH Randall and Waternoose. They are BOTH pretty evil.
Yeah, I would agree to have both too. Randall are Waternoose are both evil independently, for different reasons, but the situation makes they work together.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Finding Nemo

Is there really one? No one is really "evil".

There might not be anyone. But it could be Dory.
Dory, definitely not a villain. No one really is evil. The nature of some animals make them seem evil, but they really aren't. I say no one.
Agreed.
How about Darla? She seems evil. Crazyhead88 23:57, October 2, 2011 (UTC)
She's just a little girl. She's not really evil. And she's not a main character anyway. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 00:32, October 3, 2011 (UTC)
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Philip_Sherman said Darla's Uncle is the Primary VillainLeana Wright 2009 (talk) 21:54, January 1, 2013 (UTC)
But he's not evil either. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 17:45, January 2, 2013 (UTC)

The Incredibles

Is it just Syndrome, or is it both him AND Omnidroid v.10?

I think Syndrome. The Omnidroid isn't a thinking being.
That's what I was thinking too. But Syndrome does lose control of the Omnidroid, and it poses a big threat (if not the biggest) in the movie.
Good point, I'm fine with both.

Cars

Chick Hicks

Yes, but at Radiator Springs, might it be Doc Hudson?
If we go with villain, then no.
Sounds good.

Ratatouille

Skinner

WALL•E

Is there really one? AUTO would be the closest, but he's not really a villain. He's just following orders in order to protect the crew/passengers on the Axiom.

I don't think there is one.
Agreed.
Well, still, although AUTO is victim of his programs, he becomes extremely hard, as he tries to kill WALL•E and EVE... But it's true he isn't really evil, in some way he doesn't know he is doing bad.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC)

Up

Charles Muntz

What about Russell?
Not a villain. Charles is their main threat.
OK.

Toy Story 3

Is it just Lotso or all of Lotso's Gang?

I'm torn here, it really starts with Lotso, the rest are that way just because of him. But I would be fine saying it's also the gang, but wouldn't want the category on every member of the gang. I would be OK with Big Baby and Ken.
There is a page for the gang already - Lotso's Gang. So we could use that or just Lotso. I say Lotso, as he manipulates the others.
For sure Lotso.

Cars 2

Miles Axlerod, or him AND the Lemons?

Who is the protagonist of Cars 2? Is it Mater? If so, does that change the antagonist?
I'd say Mater is the main protagonist. But Axle turns out to be the one that he has been trying to stop all along.
For me, that you take McQueen or Mater as the main protagonist, the antagonist is the same, the lemons, directed by Miles Axlerod. On one side, they have created the WGP, which is very dangerous for its racers, which includes McQueen that they even wanted to kill at the end. On the other side, they have to get rid of those who could stop them, which includes Mater. Of course, in the point of view of McQueen, Francesco Bernoulli could be considered as an antagonist, but he finally just is his rival, and they actually finish with a sort of friendship.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC)
So definitely Axelrod.

Brave

Monsters University

Inside Out

Is there a villain? The only character I think we could classify as such would be Anger, as he's the one that convinces the other emotions to give Riley the idea to run away which leads to the film's climax. --Jeff (talk) 21:15, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

He is also the one most directly involved in the destruction of the five Islands of Personality... Nevertheless, ultimately he wants the best for Riley, like the others, so I wouldn't consider him to be evil and a villain. Other than that, Joy and Sadness are antagonists for each other, but then again, both are well-meaning. So I'd say there's no villain.--Gray Catbird (talk) 25px-Gray_catbird_cars.jpg 21:36, June 20, 2015 (UTC)
True, villain is too strong of a word. I'm fine not having one, we can see if anyone else has any feedback on the topic. Thanks. --Jeff (talk) 22:43, June 20, 2015 (UTC)

The Good Dinosaur

Finding Dory

Cars 3

Is there a villain? I would say "no". --Jeff (talk) 22:10, June 21, 2017 (UTC)

I agree, I think. Sterling is a businessman who didn't want to damage his brand with what he sincerly saw as a big mistake. Storm is condescending and all, but for the most part he is a skilled racer who wins his races fair and square... But he might be crossing a line he tries agressively to take out Cruz. I don't think it's enough to call him a villain though.--Gray Catbird (talk) 25px-Gray_catbird_cars.jpg 22:39, June 21, 2017 (UTC)
I would say no as well. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 00:07, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

Coco

Any disagreement that Ernesto De La Cruz would be the villain? --Jeff (talk) 22:52, November 24, 2017 (UTC)

Not ignoring, just haven't seen it yet to know. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 15:10, November 25, 2017 (UTC)

Incredibles 2

Seems clear that Evelyn Deavor is the villain. --Jeff (talk) 19:06, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Saw this on Friday. Yes, agreed. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 22:33, June 17, 2018 (UTC)

Toy Story 4

I don't think there is any villain (worthy of the Primary Villain category) in this film, yes? --Jeff (talk) 01:05, June 21, 2019 (UTC)

I see it tomorrow morning. I will let you know then. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 12:11, June 21, 2019 (UTC)
Having seen the movie, I can confirm that Gabby is the main "antagonist", but is not much of a villain. Think of her as the antagonist who the protagonists end up helping after coming to an understanding.BananaClownMan (talk) 21:07, June 28, 2019 (UTC)
That's how I feel about it too, definitely an antagonist but does not rise to villain. So in that case we do NOT use the primary villain category on the character page. --Jeff (talk) 21:13, June 28, 2019 (UTC)
I did see the movie, and I agree with this as well. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 12:59, July 1, 2019 (UTC)
Well, after thinking back through it, there were definitely some villainous activities, such as trying to forcibly remove Woody's voice box, holding Woody and Forky against their will, etc. So now I'm on the fence about it. I think for a time she was a villain now. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 13:03, July 1, 2019 (UTC)
Yes, she seems to cross that line, and is acting in a selfish manner. So I could be swayed on this one.
Also, the format of this page really bugs me. Are you ok if I reformat it and make each film a heading under the "Usage" header? I'd also like to re-order them in chronological order. That way it should be easier to jump right to the current discussion. --Jeff (talk) 14:37, July 1, 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, she wasn't just selfish, she was actually hostile for a bit. Sure, no issues from me on the page change. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 18:16, July 1, 2019 (UTC)

Unintentional Antagonists?

I know we have never made another Antagonists category, but how about one called "Unintentional Antagonists"? There are many characters who pose a threat to others but don't mean to, such as Buzz Lightyear, Al McWiggin, Phillip Sherman, etc. --Aaron (chat) 01:18, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

I think if we change it to Villains, then no, I don't think we need something like that. That is where the term Antagonist gets blurry. I think it is clearer by using the term Villains. --Jeff (talk) 03:01, October 3, 2011 (UTC)

Antagonists and redemption

Let's face it: should an antagonist who ends up redeeming himself/herself (that is becoming good by the end of the movie) still be considered an antagonist? I don't think so, but what do you think? I am asking this because those characters are NOT bad for 100% of the time, and there is still good inside themselves that shows up at the end. --Longliveaki 03:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

Depends on how major they are.-SlashMan 04:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
I think a bunch were added recently that shouldn't be here. What do you guys think? - RaptorWiki 22:30, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Al

Is Al even evil or the main antagonist of Toy Story 2? User:ackninja5

Yes, read the explanations above for our choices. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 14:59, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Antagonist Policy

I read RRabbit42's blog post and policy regarding Antagonist fussing on Disney Villains. While I think our Primary Villain and Protagonist categories have worked well, we still have occasional battles with the antagonist term. I think doing something similar to Disney Villains and have an official policy would be useful. What do others think? I'd be willing to start a policy page, and others can help out and give feedback. Or, maybe things are stable enough that it's not necessary? I like the idea of having the policy page so we can make it official and have a place to redirect people to when there are questions. Anyways, let me know what you think. --Jeff (talk) 22:33, September 18, 2015 (UTC)

I think our current unwritten policy is good, but I agree we should have something typed up about it. I think using "Primary Villain", etc. like we do now is just fine, and not use the antagonist term. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 14:09, September 19, 2015 (UTC)
I agree, I don't want to use the antagonist term, especially for categories. But many people still use antagonist terms in the description on pages. I'd like our policy to say we only use "main antagonist" or "minor antagonist", nothing more. I will work on writing this up. One question, is there someplace special I should put it? Like, put it under "Special:"? Or "Pixar_Wiki:"? Thanks. --Jeff (talk) 03:12, September 21, 2015 (UTC)
Should we have a "Policy" section or something like that, with a link to it from the main menu bar on the main page? - RaptorWiki (Ryan) 12:00, September 21, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds good. I think after Antagonists, the next policy page that needs to be created is categories! i.e. general categories. --Jeff (talk) 02:40, September 22, 2015 (UTC)
Ha! I was about to write the same thing! Yes, categories is another reccuring problem. Anyways, I am interested in having policy page(s). I think it would be nice to have it written out in official form, and it might be helpful too, since many of the offending users are likely simply ignorant of our policies. As for article placement, I believe "Pixar_Wiki:" is the best one to use.--Gray Catbird (talk) 25px-Gray_catbird_cars.jpg 02:45, September 22, 2015 (UTC)
So, something like Pixar_Wiki:Antagonist_policy, Pixar_Wiki:Category_policy? This would be consistent with the Disney Villains naming convention. I don't know enough about wiki conventions to know if prepending Pixar_Wiki: to the title makes the page special in any way? Or if it's a reserved namespace or anything? Thanks. --Jeff (talk) 03:07, September 22, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, the name of the wiki is a namespace. If I'm not mistaken it's usually used to host more technical, behind-the-scenes pages, like policies, forums, or sandboxes. One example on here is Pixar Wiki:Sandbox.--Gray Catbird (talk) 25px-Gray_catbird_cars.jpg 03:21, September 22, 2015 (UTC)
OK, a draft of Pixar Wiki:Antagonist policy is available. It's basically a copy of the Disney Villains policy. Please comment/edit liberally; there are a few things I already don't like about it! :) Including the name, maybe it should be Pixar_Wiki:Antagonist_fussing_policy. I also notice I don't follow the blocking policy I wrote! Also, let's move any further discussion on the policy to its talk page. --Jeff (talk) 03:35, September 22, 2015 (UTC)

Sid Phillips

Is he actually evil? I know he's the main antagonist, but I wouldn't say he's a bad kid. He tortures toys, but until the end of the movie, he doesn't know that they're alive. --Emperor Nathan (talk) 19:40, September 7, 2018 (UTC)

Evil may be too strong of a word, but he's pretty bad, especially looking at it from the eyes of a toy, LOL! Burning holes with a magnifying glass, blowing them up! --Jeff (talk) 20:03, September 7, 2018 (UTC)
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